Don Campbell - Detective Sergeant - Motion to Suppress

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Don Campbell - Detective Sergeant - Motion to Suppress

Postby admin » October 31st, 2010, 6:49 pm

DON CAMPBELL , a witness called on behalf of the State of Indiana,
being duly sworn by the Court, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION,
QUESTIONS BY MR. LEROY NEW,
DEPUTY PROSECUTOR

Q. State your name, sir.

A. Don Campbell.

Q. What is your business?

A. Detective Sergeant assigned to the Juvenile Branch, Indianapolis Police Department.

Q. How long have you been a policeman?

A. Since 1958.

Q. What was your particular assignment October 27, 1965?

A. Well, I was asked by the lieutenant - Lt. Crossen - to take statements from Coy Hubbard.

Q. When and where did you do that?

A. Juvenile Branch.

Q. Where is that located?

A. The second floor of Police Headquarters.

Q. What time of day or night did you do this?

A. This was 4:00 o'clock P.M.

Q. Who was present when you took the statement?

A. Sgt. Kaiser.

Q. Anyone else?

A. Lt. Crossen was in and out of the room.

Q. What did you say and what did Coy Hubbard say?

MR. ERBECKER: At this time the defendant Gertrude Baniszewski objects to any conversation that occurred between them in her absence.

THE COURT: Sustained as to defendant Gertrude Baniszewski.

MR. ERBECKER: I would like to make a further motion.

THE COURT: I have already sustained the motion.

MR. BOWMAN: I would like to make a motion. I ask that the jury be excused for the purpose of a preliminary question.

THE COURT: For which defendant are you asking?

MR. BOWMAN: Defendant Coy Hubbard, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, about a five or ten minute recess. Retire to the jury room during the recess and don't talk among yourselves and do not let anyone talk to you about this case or any subject connected thereto. Do not form or express any opinion on this case till it is finally submitted to you. Just retire to the jury room.

JURY EXCUSED.

THE COURT: Show the jury and alternate jurors are not in the courtroom and are out of the hearing of these proceedings.

HEARING OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY

DON CAMPBELL , a witness called on behalf of the defendant Coy Hubbard,
being duly sworn by the Court, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION (OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY),
QUESTIONS BY MR. FORREST BOWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANTS,
COY HUBBARD AND JOHN STEPHAN BANISZEWSKI

Q. State your name.

A. Don Campbell.

Q. The same Don Campbell who was just on the witness stand during the direct examination?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Detective Sergeant, assigned to Juvenile Branch, Indianapolis Police Department.

Q. You are assigned to the Juvenile Branch?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did your duties consist of as an officer assigned to the Juvenile Branch at that time?

A. I was assigned to vehicle theft.

Q. Anyone assigned with you?

A. Sgt. White and myself.

Q. Sgt. White was your partner at that time?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That was your regular duty?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was this a special assignment?

A. Yes it was, as I remember I reported for roll call and reported to work and Lt. Crossen asked me to take this statement.

Q. Lt. Crossen?

A. Yes.

Q. He asked you to take a statement?

A. Yes.

Q. About what time was that?

A. Approximately 3:30 P.M.

Q. 3:30.

A. Yes.

Q. And where did you go then?

A. I remained in the office till roll call at 4:00 o'clock.

Q. Till roll call at 4:00?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you go through roll call?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did that take?

A. Oh, approximately a minute or two minutes, something like that.

Q. Then did you go to take the statement?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go?

A. Down the hall about three doors to one of our little questioning rooms.

Q. Is that an interrogation room?

A. Yes.

Q. Are there windows in that room?

A. Yes, sir, and a door.

Q. What is the dimension of that room?

A. Approximately, I'd say eight feet by eight.

Q. 8x8?

A. Yes.

Q. About how high is the ceiling?

A. The ceiling is approximately twelve foot, I imagine.

Q. Who was in the room when you got there?

A. When I arrived it was Coy Hubbard and myself.

Q. Coy Hubbard and yourself?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. He was - was he in the room when you got there?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have a conversation with him in that room?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was - did anybody else come in?

A. Officer Kaiser came in shortly after I did.

Q. How much after you did?

A. I'd say within two or three minutes.

Q. Did you know Coy Hubbard when you saw him there?

A. No, sir.

Q. You did not. How did you find out who that was?

A. Lt. Crossen told me who was back there and I went in and asked who he was and he told me, also Kaiser.

Q. And Crossen told you to go back there and take a statement?

A. Yes.

Q. What equipment, if any, did you take back there with you?

A. Nothing other than a pen.

Q. You took a pen?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there equipment in the room when you got there?

A. Yes, there was.

Q. What equipment was there?

A. A typewriter and all the necessary paper.

Q. And did you type?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you do some typing in connection with this?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have conversation with Coy Hubbard then?

A. Yes.

Q. What - was that room bugged at that time, and if you will excuse me I had better spell it out - was there any recording devices attached in or about to record what was said?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. If we wanted a transcription of everything that occurred in the room, there is no way of getting it is that correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recall what was said in that room?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recall that without reference to any notes?

A. Not verbatim.

Q. You don't recall verbatim? Do you have notes to recall verbatim what was said in that room?

A. Yes.

Q. By reference to those notes?

A. The notes would be the statement Coy Hubbard gave me.

Q. That is what would enable you to tell verbatim what was said in the room?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. By reference to whatever source you need, tell us verbatim what was said in that room.

A. I first started out talking to Coy Hubbard, asking him if he had been involved in anything with the Sylvia Likens and he said he had. I asked him if he would want to give me a statement to his part in this act, whatever he had done and he said he would. I told him at that time that he did not have to give me a statement, did not have to say anything and if he wished to give me a statement, he could have one of his parents or both of them or an attorney present.

Q. Now, if I may interrupt you, are you giving us verbatim what was said. is that correct?

A. This is my memory of the verbatim leading up to the statement.

Q. You can't give us a verbatim of the whole conversation?

MR. NEW: We object. He is arguing with the witness.

THE COURT: Sustained. The jury is not here. Let him answer the question.

MR. BOWMAN: What question?

THE COURT: The first question you asked him - what was said verbatim.

MR. BOWMAN: I may not interrupt to learn whether or not it is verbatim when the nature of the answer indicates -

THE COURT: He is your witness.

MR. BOWMAN: He is a hostile witness.

THE COURT: I don't know. Keep on Mr. Bowman.

Q. Are you giving less complete than a verbatim account?

A. What I was saying was not verbatim. It was conversation between Coy Hubbard and myself.

Q. Go ahead.

A. When I advised him he could have his parents or attorney present when he gave this statement, he said he did not wish to. I then asked if he wanted to give me a statement and he said he did.

Q. Did he then give you a statement?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What were the mechanics for taking it down, what mechanics were used?

A. Just a typewriter.

Q. Did you type as he related it to you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, someone else came in there, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was that?

A. Sgt. Kaiser.

Q. About when in the proceedings did he come in?

A. He was there, like I said, two or three minutes after we started. I don't know exactly, he was there till I got well into the statement, into the stage of the statement.

Q. Then he left?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, was Coy Hubbard under arrest then?

A. Yes, he was.

Q. How do you know that?

A. He was placed under arrest by Sgt. Arens at 3:00 o'clock. The arrest slip was made out and also handed me when I came.

Q. Sgt. Arens?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the charge?

A. At this time it was Injury to Person.

Q. He was arrested for Injury to Person?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. As a matter of fact, that is the charge you used in delinquency complaint to Juvenile Court, is it not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was that what he was told he was arrested for?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know where he was arrested?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where?

A. Howe High School.

Q. At 3:00 o'clock?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And do you know where he was taken after he was arrested?

A. Yes, he was taken to the Juvenile Branch.

Q. Where is that?

A. Second floor of Police Headquarters.

Q. Is that in the City-County Building?

A. Yes.

Q. Downtown, Indianapolis?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now do you know where the Juvenile Center is?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where is that?

A. 25th and Keystone.

Q. About how far is that removed from the City-County Building in downtown Indianapolis?

A. I'd say approximately three miles.

Q. And is that the Juvenile Detention Center and does it also house the Juvenile Court?

A. It is in a separate building.

Q. On the same grounds as the Juvenile Detention Center?

A. Yes.

Q. That is 25th and Keystone?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was Coy Hubbard arrested on a warrant or was he not, do you know?

A. I don't know.

Q. You don't know?

A. No.

Q. The arrest slip to which you indicate, it does not indicate that?

A. No, sir, it does not.

Q. Do you know why not?

A. No, sir.

Q. Who arrested him?

A. Sgt. Arens.

Q. And do you know whether or not he had been taken to any court prior to your talking to him?

A. No, sir.

Q. You don't know?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know who would know?

A. I beg your pardon?

Q. Do you know who would know whether or not he had?

A. I rather imagine it would be Sgt. Arens.

Q. Would you know where he is?

A. I think he is working the middle shift at this time.

Q. Working the middle shift?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Does he ordinarily interrogate juveniles?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. But in this case he made the arrest but you did the interrogation?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do - are you specially skilled in interrogating juveniles?

A. No, sir, at this time we were working different shifts. Sgt. Arens was on the day shift and I was on the middle shift.

Q. His shift had ended and he had gone home?

A. That is right.

Q. Coy Hubbard gave you a statement?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you type as he talked?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was that - the material you typed on that paper - was that the first time you had heard that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. So as he would relate it you would type it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was that the final form in which the statement was put?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. It was?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And was that tendered to him for his signature?

A. It was.

Q. And it just happened that what he - you would ask him a question and type it out and he would answer and you would type it out, correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did this interrogation last?

A. I'd say approximately two hours.

Q. Two hours, so it concluded about what time?

A. Approximately 6:00 o'clock.

Q. Did you type down everything he told you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That is all included in that statement, is that correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then did you tender that statement to him for signature?

A. I did, yes.

Q. He signed it?

A. Yes.

Q. Who else was present, if anyone, when he signed it?

A. Sgt. Kaiser.

Q. Sgt. Kaiser?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did you do then?

A. Then he was transported out to the Juvenile Center.

Q. To the Juvenile Center. Were either of his parents brought down there when you took that statement?

A. No, sir, I don't believe so.

Q. You don't believe they were? Do you know whether - or not he had seen either of his parents?

A. No, I don't know that he did.

Q. You would not know whether he did or did not, is that correct?

A. Yes.

MR. BOWMAN: You may cross.

CROSS EXAMINATION (OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY),
QUESTIONS BY MR. LEROY NEW,
DEPUTY PROSECUTOR

Q. Officer, was this statement read to the defendant Coy Hubbard and did he read it before he signed it?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. Did he put his signature to the written statement voluntarily?

A. Yes.

MR. NEW: Nothing else. No re-direct.

MR. ERBECKER: I would like to ask the court that it be ruled inadmissible to Gertrude Baniszewski. It would be detrimental to her.

THE COURT: Have you seen the statement?

MR. ERBECKER: I would like to ask a preliminary question. Is the name Gertrude Baniszewski named in that written statement?

A. Not by that name, no, sir.

MR. ERBECKER: I ask permission, Your Honor, to be permitted to interrogate this witness also with reference to protection of Gertrude Wright or Gertrude Baniszewski.

THE COURT: I have already sustained your objection as far as Gertrude Baniszewski is concerned. Concerning Wright, I have to sustain your objection. Now, the instrument and evidence will not be admissible as to her. Tell me why.

MR. ERBECKER: Because if it is read to the jury, even with that admonition, this is a joint trial with five defendants, Gertrude Baniszewski made a motion for a separate trial and it was denied, Stephanie has been granted a separate trial. By the virtue of the circumstances of this case, Gertrude Baniszewski, contends that the statement is inadmissible and the reason she is primarily interested is, if that statement is read to the jury, no admonition of the court it could possibly give could possibly erase that from the jury.

THE COURT: Why is it inadmissible?

MR. BOWMAN: May I interrupt. I have witnesses to present on this point I need to call. It is going to take a half hour to get the witness. I have another witness that is going to be here in a few minutes. I would like to call the third one in order to save some time and get that witness started here.

THE COURT: He wants to ask a question.

MR. BOWMAN: I want to make a telephone call, trying to save some time.

THE COURT: Let's all sit here together. Don't you think Mr. Bowman has covered all this?

MR. ERBECKER: We are calling the court's attention, we have a stake in this, Gertrude does, because her name is mentioned. I don't know if the court is unmindful what the U.S. Supreme Court says in the Gallegos case in reversing that conviction in toto. That is what I am concerned about. If Gertrude Baniszewski's name is mentioned in it, she will be irreparably harmed.

THE COURT: Overruled. The right to ask any question is limited, I think, to the defendant Coy Hubbard and the State of Indiana, on a preliminary matter. Before a jury, it may be a different situation. On a preliminary matter, to ask a question here, I don't think is proper at this time. Permission to ask a question by defendant Gertrude Baniszewski overruled, since I have already sustained her objection to the entire conversation in the exhibit. Anything further, Mr. Bowman?

MR. BOWMAN: Of this witness, no, Your Honor.

THE COURT: State of Indiana?

MR. NEW: No.

THE COURT: What is your reason, sir?

MR. BOWMAN: I have two more witnesses. One will be here in a few minutes. One is going to take a half hour.

THE COURT: May I call the jury in?

MR. BOWMAN: I think so.

THE COURT: Bring in the jury.

JURY PRESENT AND SEATED.

THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury and Alternate Jurors, this recess is going to be longer than I had anticipated. By agreement of counsel and with the consent of the State and defendants given in open court, the jury is permitted to separate. During the recess, don't talk among yourselves and don't let anyone talk to you about this case or any subject connected therewith. Don't form or express any opinion on the case till it is finally submitted to you. Don't read any newspaper articles that may appear about the case and don't watch or listen to anything that may be broadcast about the case. Report back in the jury room at 11:00 o'clock. Court will remain in session.

JURY EXCUSED.

THE COURT: Let's be seated. Mr. Bowman, you want a five recess?

MR. NEW: Your Honor, I will say this to assist Mr. Bowman. In interest of time, the State will acknowledge Officer Arens brought the defendant Coy Hubbard directly from Howe High School to Juvenile Branch at Police Headquarters.

THE COURT: In a criminal case, particularly a matter of this kind like agreed statements. Do you need assistance in your phone call. Norm Collins will be glad to help.

MR. BOWMAN: No, I would rather he did not. I think I had better make it myself.

THE COURT: We will reconvene in five minutes. Be sure and come back here within five minutes.

RECESS.

THE COURT: Are you through with the last witness?

MR. BOWMAN: Yes.

WITNESS EXCUSED.

MR. BOWMAN: Sgt. Kaiser.
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