William Kaiser - Detective Sergeant

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William Kaiser - Detective Sergeant

Postby admin » October 31st, 2010, 6:47 pm

WILLIAM KAISER , a witness called by the defendant Coy Hubbard,
being duly sworn by the Court, testified as follows:


Q. What is your name?

A. William Kaiser, Police Officer, City of Indianapolis.

Q. Were you so employed -

THE COURT: Be sure, Mrs. Court Reporter, and show the jury and alternates are not in the court room or in hearing of the proceedings.

Q. Are you the same William Kaiser who previously testified in this case?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are still under oath, do you understand that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are the William Kaiser who was in charge of the investigation of the death of Sylvia Likens?

A. That is correct, sir.

Q. On October 27, 1965, did you have occasion to see Coy Hubbard?

A. I did, sir.

Q. Where?

A. Juvenile Branch, Indianapolis Police Department.

Q. Is the Juvenile Branch of Indianapolis Police Department in Police Headquarters, City-County Building?

A. That is correct.

Q. It is removed from the Juvenile Detention Center and Juvenile Court?

A. Yes.

Q. Located where?

A. 25th and Keystone.

Q. The Juvenile Branch is part of the Indianapolis Police Department, is it?

A. That is correct.

Q. That is where Coy Hubbard was?

A. That is correct.

Q. What time did you see him?

A. I would guess approximately around 3:00 P.M.

Q. Around 3:00 P.M.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where was he when you first saw him?

A. He was in a questioning room in the Juvenile Branch.

Q. A questioning room in the Juvenile Branch?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that an interrogation room?

A. I believe so, yes.

Q. What are the dimensions of that room?

A. I really don't know.

Q. Are they as large as this courtroom?

A. No, sir.

Q. Who else, if anyone, was present with him when you saw him?

A. Sgt. Campbell.

Q. Sgt. Campbell?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that all, just he and Sgt. Campbell?

A. Yes, to the best of my knowledge.

Q. Alright, he was there when you got there?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you go in and sit down?

A. Yes, sir, I did.

Q. Is there any equipment in there?

A. A desk and typewriter and a couple of chairs, I believe.

Q. Has anything being done with the typewriter?

A. Not at that time.

Q. Not at that time?

A. No, sir.

Q. What was happening?

A. Well, when I first arrived, Sgt. Campbell was having a conversation with Coy Hubbard.

Q. He was?

A. Yes.

Q. He was not typing?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you recall what was being said?

A. No, sir, well, the first part of the conversation I and Sgt. Campbell advised Coy Hubbard he did not have to give any kind of statement or sign anything till he contacted his dad and he could have his dad down there and he could get an attorney.

Q. Did you tell him that?

A. I told him that and also Sgt. Campbell told him there.

Q. Right after you told him?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that what you told him?

A. Yes.

Q. Were any of his patents down there?

A. No, they were not. He told us, when we advised him of this, he wanted to go ahead and sign the statement, give a statement.

Q. He did?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And did he give you a statement?

A. Well, I was called out of the office then - as I said I was talking to some people upstairs and I was called out of the office for sometime and then I was called back to the Juvenile Branch.

Q. About what time did you get back there?

A. I would say probably an hour or so later.

Q. Was Coy Hubbard still there?

A. Yes, sir, he was.

Q. Was any one with him?

A. Yes, sir, Sgt. Campbell.

Q. What, if anything, was happening?

A. At that time, the statement was completed and then Sgt. Campbell read the statement to him and Mr. Hubbard signed it and Sgt. Campbell signed it and I witnessed the statement, the signature.

Q. Now, do you know how old Coy Hubbard was at that time?

A. I believe fifteen, sir.

Q. Fifteen years of age. Was he under arrest, if you know?

A. Well, he was being held by the Juvenile authorities on a charge of Injury to Person.

Q. That is a charge used for delinquency, is it not?

A. I believe it is a sub-charge in delinquency.

Q. That is what he was told he was charged with, is that right?

A. To the best of my knowledge.

Q. Do you know whether or not he was arrested on a warrant?

A. Yes, on November 1, I went to the Prosecutor's Office and obtained warrants and on that date the warrant was read to him and he was arrested on that date on an outright charge of Murder.

Q. November 1?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then that would have been three days after this interrogation?

A. That is right, it was on Monday.

Q. On the Injury to person charge, was that arrest on a warrant, if you know?

A. I really don't know, sir. To the best of my knowledge, I don't believe so.

Q. You don't believe so?

A. No.

Q. Did you, after the interrogation, call his parents?

A. Well, I left, sir, after that. I was making an investigation of my own upstairs. I was talking to some people up there.

Q. You did not call his parents after the interrogation?

A. I did not, sir.

Q. Do you know whether or not anyone else did that?

A. I don't know.

MR. BOWMAN: You may cross.


Q. He signed the statement in your presence?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. After it had been read to him?

A. Yes, by Sgt. Campbell.

Q. At the time he was under arrest?

A. Yes.

MR. NEW: No further questions.

MR. BOWMAN: No re-direct of this witness, Your Honor. I have one more witness who is not here yet.

MR. ERBECKER: I would like to cross examine this witness for the reasons heretofore stated.

THE COURT: Overruled because the court has sustained Gertrude Baniszewski, alias Wright's objection and the objection has been sustained in toto as to her as far as this alleged confession is concerned.

MR. RICE: I have a preliminary question, if it please the court.

THE COURT: In whose behalf?

MR. RICE: Paula Marie Baniszewski.

THE COURT: Overruled. Want to make an objection for her?

MR. RICE: No, I wish to ask a question, elicit a confirmation of a piece of information I have before me.

THE COURT: You can talk to him privately. It is alright for the lawyers to talk to the witnesses.

MR. RICE: I understand that.

THE COURT: This is a matter between Coy Hubbard and the State of Indiana. Next witness, Mr. Bowman.

MR. BOWMAN: He is not here yet. He will be here in five or ten minutes.


THE COURT: Alright, now while we are waiting on this witness, there has been filed by defendant Gertrude Baniszewski a motion for inspection of the premises and during the last five minute recess I looked at the statute. I am a little afraid I have to have everybody's consent, court is inclined to grant it if I can get the consent of the other defendants.

MR. NEDEFF: Richard Hobbs concurs.

MR. RICE: No objection from Paula Marie.

THE COURT: May I have consent?

MR. RICE: Yes.

THE COURT: With consent of Coy Hubbard and John Stephan Baniszewski?


THE COURT: State of Indiana?

MR. NEW: The State of Indiana consents to have the jury, under the terms and conditions set forth in the statute, view the premises.

THE COURT: Since the court has the consent of all the defendants, and the State, the court will grant same. I will follow the language of the statute, they will be conducted in a body under the charge of an officer - the place should be shown by some person appointed by the court for that purpose. Do you people have any thoughts who that person should be?

MR. BOWMAN: The bailiff, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Is that alright with everybody?

MR. NEW: It is agreeable with the State.

MR. ERBECKER: There is no objection from Gertrude Baniszewski who is out there.

MR. NEW: Since this is out of the presence of the jury, I am assuming there were no major alterations in the last five days in the premises.

THE COURT: I don't know. When am I going to direct this? I intend to, since I have the consent of all of the defendants. It will be granted. When and under what arrangements and what circumstances. When we need a lengthy recess again maybe that would be a good time. I intend to ask the sheriff to bring over a bus and bring them all out in a body together. I will admonish them as well as the bailiff appointed for that purpose. In the interim, if either side wishes to inspect the premises before I will still allow that consent to be withdrawn if there is alteration in the premises, a major alteration.

MR. NEW: We will take a look.

THE COURT: Maybe all the lawyers - including the prosecutor's office - should go out together and take a look together.


THE COURT: We are all here. May we proceed without Miss Wessner?

MR. NEW: We may, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Has this witness been sworn?

MR. BOWMAN: No, Your Honor.


THE COURT: Before Mr. Bowman commences, be sure the record shows the jurors and alternate jurors are not in the courtroom and are out of the presence and hearing of these proceedings.
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