Duge Butler - Attorney

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Duge Butler - Attorney

Postby admin » October 31st, 2010, 5:53 pm

WITNESS SWORN BY THE COURT.

MR. ERBECKER: Before we proceed, I would like the record to show the defendant Gertrude Baniszewski waives the attorney-client relationship, if it is shown to exist in this case, is that right?

GERTRUDE BANISZEWSKI: Yes.

MR. BOWMAN: Your Honor, may we have a preliminary inquiry?

THE COURT: Out of the presence of the jury?

MR. BOWMAN: I think it should be.

THE COURT: Alright, retire to the jury room a few minutes. I don't know how many minutes. During this period of time you are out of the courtroom, do not talk among yourselves and don't let anyone talk to you about this case or any subject connected therewith. Don't form or express an opinion till the case is finally submitted to you. Jury and Alternate Jurors retire to the jury room.

JURY EXCUSED.

THE COURT: Alright, the jury is out of the room, not within the presence or hearing of these proceedings. Proceed, Mr. Bowman.

MR. ERBECKER: We are going to object to any preliminary questions until we first have an opportunity to introduce evidence from the witness to determine the materiality of any preliminary questions. The witness has not even been identified.

THE COURT: Overruled. Identify the witness, Mr. Bowman.

PRELIMINARY QUESTIONS (OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY),
BY MR. FORREST BOWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANTS,
COY HUBBARD AND JOHN STEPHAN BANISZEWSKI

Q. State your name, please.

A. Duge Butler.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. I am an attorney.

Q. Are you licensed to practice law in the State of Indiana?

A. I am.

Q. How long have you been so licensed?

A. Since 1955.

Q. Are you acquainted with any of the defendants in this case?

A. Only the defendant Gertrude Baniszewski.

Q. Have you ever represented, as an attorney, the interests of John Baniszewski?

A. As an attorney, no.

Q. Was your answer "as an attorney"?

A. May I clarify that, Forrest, I have advised John Baniszewski on some points during the time he served as a police officer for the City of Beech Grove. I never participated in any litigation for or against him.

THE COURT: Which one?

A. I am speaking of John Baniszewski, Senior.

Q. Do you know this young man seated behind me here?

A. I have seen the children on various occasions in Beech Grove, but not to recognize who they are or anything of that nature, to my knowledge I never talked to any of them.

Q. In your capacity as attorney in any consultations with either John Baniszewski, Senior, or Gertrude Baniszewski, have you ever gained any information about John Baniszewski, Junior?

A. No, sir.

MR. BOWMAN: I have nothing further, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Ready for the jury?

MR. BOWMAN: Yes.

THE COURT: Bring in the jury.

JURY PRESENT AND SEATED.

THE COURT: You may proceed with the questioning of this witness.

DUGE BUTLER , a witness called on behalf of defendant Gertrude Baniszewski,
being duly sworn by the court, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION,
QUESTIONS BY MR. WILLIAM ERBECKER, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT,
GERTRUDE BANISZEWSKI

Q. State your name.

A. Duge Butler.

Q. What is your occupation or profession?

A. I am an attorney.

Q. For how long, sir?

A. Since 1955.

Q. '55?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You have an office, naturally, in Marion County, Indiana, here, do you?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Where do you live?

A. 3346 Hillcrest Drive, Indianapolis.

Q. Is that Beech Grove?

A. No, I moved from Beech Grove last December. It is just north of Southport.

Q. Do you know the defendant Gertrude Baniszewski?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. How long have you known her?

A. Since about 1958. That is when her husband first came to work for the Beech Grove Police Department.

Q. Now, directing your attention to the year 1965, did you have occasion to see Gertrude Baniszewski?

A. Yes, sir, I did.

Q. When and where?

A. As near as I could find in my records, I think Gertrude calledme about April 13 and she was in the office shortly after that time.

Q. And at that time, did you have conversation with her?

A. We did.

Q. She waived attorney-client relationship. Will you describe her conversation with you at that time?

A. You mean as to what she was in to see me about?

Q. Yes.

MR. NEW: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Will you describe her appearance and her demeanor and mannerisms at that time?

A. Rather nervous, distraught.

Q. What do you mean by distraught?

A. Very upset.

Q. Did you see her again after April 13, 1965?

A. Yes, my office records, although they are not complete as I might like them, would indicate I saw her at least two, perhaps three occasions after that.

Q. Can you give us approximate dates?

A. Yes, I saw her in May and I think I saw her twice in June and I may have seen her about July, the later part of July somewhere in there. I only talked with her by telephone after that date, as nearly as I can recall.

Q. Now, at that time, Mr. Butler, will you describe her physical appearance, her mannerisms, demeanor and conduct - not the conversation? On those occasions?

A. On all the occasions, I saw her in 1965, I - she was rather distraught, a very nervous, upset person, this kind of thing. Actually, she did not appear to take as good care of herself as she once did.

Q. What do you mean by appearance?

A. Appearance.

Q. Describe her appearance.

A. Her manner of dress and so forth was not as I remembered Gertrude. Her hair was not always fixed right. I believe one time she came in the office with black slacks, things like this.

Q. What about her general physical appearance with reference to weight?

A. She was thin.

Q. Thinner than now?

A. Perhaps pretty close to the same, Mr. Erbecker.

Q. Did you handle any litigation from the first time you saw her April 1965 until now, did you?

A. Yes, I handled some litigation for her.

Q. Not pertaining to any of the defendants in this case, was it?

A. No.

Q. And it was not pertaining to her ex-husband, was it?

A. No.

Q. And will you tell us where the litigation was instituted?

A. Marion County Juvenile Court.

Q. Did you - could you give us the date?

A. Yes, April 26, 1965 we initiated two actions in that court.

Q. What kind of action?

A. These were paternity actions.

Q. Two paternity suits?

A. Yes, one child in being and another child with whom she was pregnant at the time.

Q. Who was named in those cases?

A. A Dennis L. Wright, Sr.

Q. What is the status of those cases?

MR. NEW: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Were they ever finally litigated?

MR. NEW: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Was there ever any hearing on them?

MR. NEW: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Were there ever any judgments entered in them?

MR. NEW: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Now, when would you say would be the last time you saw her - sometime in July?

A. The records would indicate sometime in July.

Q. What was the occasion - don't describe the conversation - what was the occasion of that?

A. I don't honestly recall, Bill.

Q. Would you say her mannerisms, deportment, her conduct and her appearance was different from that when you observed in 1958?

A. Yes.

Q. To a marked degree or only slightly?

A. To a degree, I could not say whether it were a marked degree or not. Like I say, she was extremely upset and distraught each time I saw her in '65.

Q. Was she that way in '58?

A. Not so much, although between 1948 and 1965 I had talked with her on various occasions on the telephone, principally about financial affairs and things like this. I saw her very seldom. I did talk to her on the telephone when she had a particular problem.

Q. How often would that be?

A. That is hard to estimate. Let's say once every year or once every two years. It was not very often.

Q. Did she have any financial problems in July 1965?

MR. NEW: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. ERBECKER: Nothing further, Mr. Butler.

THE COURT: Cross examine?

MR. NEW: No questions.

THE COURT: Any questions on behalf of the defendants?

MR. RICE: Yes.

CROSS EXAMINATION,
QUESTIONS BY MR. GEORGE RICE, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT,
PAULA MARIE BANISZEWSKI

Q. Mr. Butler, are you personally acquainted with John Baniszewski, Senior?

A. I am.

Q. In what capacity, did you first become acquainted with him?

MR. ERBECKER: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Do you have a particular office you hold in the community of Beech Grove, of an official nature?

MR. ERBECKER: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Are you acquainted with Dennis Wright, personally?

A. No, I have never met Dennis Wright.

Q. How long have you known Mr. Baniszewski, Senior?

MR. ERBECKER: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. RICE: No further questions.

THE COURT: Defendants Coy Hubbard and John Stephan Baniszewski - any questions?

MR. BOWMAN: Yes.

CROSS EXAMINATION,
QUESTIONS BY MR. FORREST BOWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANTS,
COY HUBBARD AND JOHN STEPHAN BANISZEWSKI

Q. Mr. Butler, from what you have seen of Gertrude Baniszewski from 1958 to 1965 and your observation of her emotional condition there, would you, as an attorney and parent, have an opinion as to whether or not she was in a suitable emotional state to be an adequate mother?

MR. NEW: The State objects.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. BOWMAN: No further questions.

THE COURT: Defendant Richard Hobbs?

CROSS EXAMINATION,
QUESTIONS BY MR. JAMES NEDEFF, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT,
RICHARD HOBBS

Q. The two paternity suits you filed in behalf of Gertrude Baniszewski - do they reflect the age of the defendant in both cases, of Dennis L. Wright?

A. No, but I have other documents which would give me that information, if you want it.

MR. ERBECKER: We object.

THE COURT: Objection sustained. The answer will go out and the jury will ignore the answer in arriving at a verdict as to Gertrude Baniszewski. Next question, Mr. Nedeff.

Q. Was he younger than Gertrude Baniszewski?

MR. ERBECKER: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEDEFF: No other questions.

THE COURT: Any omitted questions?

RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION (OMITTED QUESTIONS),
BY MR. WILLIAM ERBECKER, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT,
GERTRUDE BANISZEWSKI

Q. Now, Mr. Butler, basing your answer on what you testified here with reference to your seeing the defendant in April, May, June, July, whenever it was you testified here, would you have recommended her as a babysitter for anybody?

MR. NEW: We object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. ERBECKER: No further questions.

THE COURT: Any other questions?

MR. NEW: No questions from the State, Your Honor.

MR. BOWMAN: No questions.

MR. NEDEFF: No questions.

THE COURT: Paula Marie Baniszewski?

MR. RICE: No, Your Honor.

WITNESS EXCUSED.

THE COURT: Next witness, please.
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