Judy Darlene Duke

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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Cathy » August 3rd, 2011, 1:07 am

heartbrokenhero wrote:thats still no reason to put yourself above another person just to save your own skin. thats extremely selfish and only caring about yourself.

if she really was trying to help she would of kept trying or of told someone else. and if she was truly scared she must not have been that scared to try to tell someone in the first place. if you going to finally risk your own well being, you might as well go all or nothing.


I agree with that statement. More than one person failed Sylvia in that house and they are all responsible. Along with the neighbor and the nurse who did absolutely nothing.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby heartbrokenhero » August 3rd, 2011, 1:25 am

theirs a major difference between jenny and all the others. they enjoyed it.. they didnt hesitate... it was a game to to them all! none of this can be said about jenny. theirs no comparison.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Harlequin » August 3rd, 2011, 12:20 pm

I find it difficult believing the birthday cake tale. Nobody at trial mentioned it. I can't imagine Sylvia, in the state of fear she was in, grabbing cake from another child in front of Gertrude. It doesn't add up.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby mrdg1 » August 3rd, 2011, 4:14 pm

yeah that part doesn't make no sense ,besides that what did they cut the cake with ? , that 1 spoon they had.if i run into al hunter again (the guy that wrote this article) at one of the tours, i'll ask him about this interview with judy and see what he says off the record.it seems rather strange,why come foward all these years later just to fabricate lies?

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Cathy » August 4th, 2011, 12:33 am

Maybe her memory was clouded from so many years ago. If there had been a birthday cake in that house there might have been a bloodbath killed on who was getting a bigger piece than the other person. I have great long term memory,and friends of mine will get alot of things mixed up with other events, and I'll have to correct them.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby mommamissi31 » August 4th, 2011, 12:16 pm

Wow reading that was tough. We have heard of all of the incidents that were brought up during the trial but reading about that circle of terror just supplied us with another sad image of Sylvia's last days. I believe what Judy says about the abuse. I am not sure if I believe that she had as little to do with the abuse as she claims. I believe she told her mom though, and I have to give her some credit for that. I can picture Gertrude hurling that poor child down the steps. The jealousy in this case is so incredible. It is so scary to realize what the effects of jealousy can churn out. Here is a lovely, sweet girl that landed on the doorstep of an overweight pregnant teen who (I imagine) knew that the father of her baby got what he wanted from her and lost interest and a used up woman who looked 3 times her age. To this very day I am unable to understand how this happened. I understand why Gertrude and Paula were jealous but the fact that this woman was able to get those kids to do such horrible things. I would have told Gertie to get lost. I am not doing that! I don't understand......

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby mrdg1 » December 19th, 2011, 8:03 pm

this weekend i was at a book signing at a small mom and pop bookstore in irvington called (book mama's). the book that was fresh off the press was about the national road (us 40) that runs straight through central indiana.one of the co -authors of this pictorial history book was nonother than alan e. hunter. al is a very respected local historian and author in central indiana. he also does a weekly column in the community newspaper the eastside voice called ( bumps in the night). after making it to the front of the line pam and i purchased a fresh copy of the new book and had it personally signed by al hunter and joe jarzen. i noticed they were no other people behind us so we had a few precious minutes to have a little small talk with al and joe.we briefly talked about some indy folklore and history such as the house of blue lights and victorian serial killer h. h. holmes who killed 2 of his victims in irvington.i then inquired about his trip to springfield, ill. and visit to the lincoln tomb.btw we're both big lincoln buff's.he informed me that he'll be returning there next year along with other historians who got permission to piece back together the remaining pieces of the lincoln sarcoughacus (probally a typo) lid which was broken during the botched body snatching caper.hey pretty cool stuff. the time seemed right so i simply asked him about the judy duke interview.i posed this question to him.do you believe she was sincere and truthful about the information she gave in the interview?his face took on a solumn look briefly.he then replied with conviction and said ( yes i most definetly believe that she was telling me the truth).she seemed to be carrying the regret of not having done more for sylvia all these years.al said she sounded very remorseful. i then noticed a line was starting to form behind me, so i thanked him for his time and honest opinion.i did get al's consent for a quick photo of himself of which i'll post in the image gallerey.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Harlequin » December 19th, 2011, 10:12 pm

I can believe that Judy is remorseful. The neighborhood kids can't all have been sociopaths, like Gertrude, Paula and Coy were. However, the majority of her interview, and the stories she told, appeared far-fetched. Would Sylvia, being in the state of fear and anxiety she was existing in, snatch a piece of cake off Judy's plate in front of Gertrude? I can't see it. Judy also described a depraved 'game' in which the children circled Sylvia, who was sitting and weeping in a chair, and whenever one of them would pass her, they'd strike or kick her; when Judy apparently refused and turned to leave, Gertrude dragged her back, physically took her foot in her hands, and forced her to kick Sylvia in the legs. Again, I struggle to believe any of the children were reluctant to participate. My biggest issue with this interview, however, was the way in which she continually referred to Sylvia as "that naked girl". I didn't like that; not one bit. Whether or not it was out of shame, it was once again dehumanizing their victim.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby mrdg1 » December 19th, 2011, 11:57 pm

i really didn't have intentions of getting into specific parts of the interview with al, but yeah some parts don't jive, i agree.i just wanted his overall perspective of the conversation.the part that caught my attention was when she stated that sylvia had missing teeth as in plural, not just one front tooth.al hunter seems to be a standup guy and one of the most interesting individuals i've ever met.he grew up in the area around 13th and sherman dr. in the late 1960's. this is near brookside park and about 11/2 miles from sherman and new york st. he went to high school at howe and later in westfield ind. he resides near the westfield area. here's a little footnote al shared with us sunday about another notorius serial killer from indiana. when al coached little leauge baseball in westfield, indiana there was a young boy on his team who's last name was baumeister. if that name sound's familar, it should. his dad was herb baumeister. the i 70 killer and murderer of several young gay men and boys in the indianapolis metro area.several bodies were found buried or burnt on his property at fow hollow farms.he had a double life his family was completely oblivious and unaware of.on the verge of being tracked down and captured he fled to canada where he committed suicide. he would show up at his son's baseball practices in a three piece suit while fielding ground balls.everyone thought he was a oddball who didn't socialize with the other parents but nobody suspected or had a inkling of his true idenity of being a mass murderer.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Cathy » December 20th, 2011, 1:00 am

I remember some time back there was some doubt expressed on another forum that Judy Duke had actually given that interview. Was there even a birthday cake or party in the Baniszewski house when they had no silverware and were living on soup and crackers? And is Judy Duke still living?

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby charlie4455 » December 20th, 2011, 9:19 am

Cathy wrote:I remember some time back there was some doubt expressed on another forum that Judy Duke had actually given that interview. Was there even a birthday cake or party in the Baniszewski house when they had no silverware and were living on soup and crackers? And is Judy Duke still living?


Yes Judy is still alive with 2 -3 kids, got married in 1972.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Chester Arthur » December 21st, 2011, 9:52 am

In fairness to Judy, I think it was the reporter who kept calling Sylvia "that naked girl". If you notice in the article, the reporter kept saying that in quotation marks. Now either this reporter is quoting someone or he/she is trying to make a point. Judy may have called Sylvia that in the beginning but then the reporter got carried away. It sort of reminded me of Dr. Evil with "fire the 'lay-zer'"!
My heart will always cherish
that cheerful happy sound
and my love will never perish
for my faithful basset hound!

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Chester Arthur » December 21st, 2011, 9:56 am

Cathy wrote:I remember some time back there was some doubt expressed on another forum that Judy Duke had actually given that interview. Was there even a birthday cake or party in the Baniszewski house when they had no silverware and were living on soup and crackers? And is Judy Duke still living?

I agree it does sound rather far-fetched considering what we know about that house. The only thing that I can think of is that they actually ate the cake with their hands. And finally, where would they find the money for a cake when they couldn't even afford to buy food. Once again, we should take all this with a pinch of salt.
My heart will always cherish
that cheerful happy sound
and my love will never perish
for my faithful basset hound!

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Cathy » December 22nd, 2011, 1:57 am

Thank you, charlie4455.


Chester, I thought the same thing. Sometimes I remember us doing the same things, just using our fingers.

The interview is pretty vague and doesn't tell us much of what we don't already know. i find it unsettling there doesn't seem to be too much sorrow or sympathy for Sylvia and what she went through. I would think after all these years there would be more sorrow and regret when describing such tragic events. Maybe they're just too ashamed of themselves and what they did.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Chester Arthur » December 22nd, 2011, 3:56 am

Cathy wrote:The interview is pretty vague and doesn't tell us much of what we don't already know. i find it unsettling there doesn't seem to be too much sorrow or sympathy for Sylvia and what she went through. I would think after all these years there would be more sorrow and regret when describing such tragic events. Maybe they're just too ashamed of themselves and what they did.

Maybe I've become more cynical as I'm getting older but another possibility is that most of the kids involved may have simply found ways to rationalize their bad behavior. They may think, "everyone was doing it", "we really didn't mean to hurt her", "I didn't do as much as the others", or my personal favorite, "I said I was sorry so my conscience is clean". Given that, with the exception of John, none of those responsible has ever stated that they are sorry for what they did, why should we expect a reporter, who wasn't even there, to show any sympathy?
My heart will always cherish
that cheerful happy sound
and my love will never perish
for my faithful basset hound!

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Elizabeth » December 22nd, 2011, 7:29 am

She must be genuine, even if her memory is somewhat tainted. Otherwise, she wouldn't, some forty years gone since, call Sylvia "that naked girl". That was not the grown-up woman talking but the 12 years old from then, and what she described is what she saw and couldn't process. Nakedness, at the time, was very unusual and Sylvia would never have walked around naked - in fact, would never have had the idea - if Gertrude hadn't made her. Probably she was the first naked (biologically) grown-up person Judy had ever seen in her life, and if it hadn't been for 1968, she would have been the last, too, until Judy got married. You've got to understand about the time to see the enormity of details in what Gertrude did to Sylvia.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Chester Arthur » December 22nd, 2011, 8:17 am

Elizabeth wrote:Sylvia would never have walked around naked

With all due respect, I don't know of anyone even today that would walk around naked in public (except on a few beaches on Mykonos) so it's still not something that is common. But you may be right that if Judy did see Sylvia naked, that may have been something she was not able to process which is why she referred to Sylvia in the way she did. I don't think it was out of disrespect for Sylvia; she may not have gotten over the shock of seeing what she did. And you are also right that back in the 60s, when television shows were showing married couples sleeping in separate beds, American society was much more puritanical when it came to issues such as nudity than it is now and considering the fact that Judy was one of the few kids, if not the only kid, who had any semblence of a conscience, Judy probably had a much more difficult time processing what she saw given the social norms with which she was raised.
My heart will always cherish
that cheerful happy sound
and my love will never perish
for my faithful basset hound!

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby naser » October 14th, 2012, 2:47 am

i think she was honest at least she told her mother< then she cant Object her mothoer opnion, she just 12 years old
and i know she was visiting jenny and she went more than 8 times but why she keep going i think its the Curiosity of 12 years old girl who was told by her mother that this beating is just normal

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Chester Arthur » October 14th, 2012, 2:44 pm

naser wrote:i think she was honest at least she told her mother< then she cant Object her mothoer opnion, she just 12 years old and i know she was visiting jenny and she went more than 8 times but why she keep going i think its the Curiosity of 12 years old girl who was told by her mother that this beating is just normal

In fairness, Judy's mom didn't say that such beatings were normal but suspected that Gertrude was simply disciplining Sylvia in a "normal" way. I don't think Mrs Duke ever did grasp just how badly Sylvia was being tortured until Gertrude's trial.
My heart will always cherish
that cheerful happy sound
and my love will never perish
for my faithful basset hound!

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Elizabeth » October 16th, 2012, 12:53 am

Right. And who would? I mean we, today, and with our knowledge of Sylvia and other abused people, okay - if I heard now that someone is being beaten "something awful", of course, I 'd be alarmed allright. But apart from that, who would even imagine ... who would even have that kind of imagination? Screaming and all - I do remember, when I was 12 or 13, I once screamed, I won't say like Sylvia, certainly not, but in sheer terror and at the top of my voice. The neighbours heard all right but guess what they thought? A screaming contest among kids, who gets loudest. And today, I do not blame them any longer.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Chantique » December 1st, 2012, 10:43 am

I believe Judy has a bit of a guilty conscience in retrospect for not doing more to stop what was going on. But, as it's already been said, she was just 12 years old at the time, most likely scared of Gertrude, and it was the 60's. Spanking and getting a little bit more physical with your kids then is considered appropriate today was common then. And I'm sure that's all Mrs. Duke thought was going on. So that's probably why she didn't do anything to stop it. I'm sure Judy and Mrs. Duke didn't have cruel intentions, just not a full grasp on what was going on.

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby Carlton » January 3rd, 2013, 2:25 pm

Did parents in the 60's not listen to their kids? Was this normal at the time? I know my GrandMum brushed off my Mother when she was young. The "kids should be seen and not heard" mantra? Because a 12 year old telling a parental unit about beatings and violence and not "getting through" to the adult is ridiculous. These weren't 4 year olds who often don't make sense or tell you half of the story. Especially the "naked" part. Isn't that kind of alarming to hear about a teenager wandering about a home filled with friends family, nude all the time?

 
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Re: Judy Darlene Duke

Postby AmeliaHarper » January 3rd, 2013, 2:47 pm

I just read through all of the discussions and noticed that most people have said that 12-13 year olds don't understand this kind of thing *Cough* I discovered this story when i was 12 *Cough* She was the only one who told someone about it yet her mum chose to dismiss it. The cake thing however, is a huge joke. Even if Sylvia was malnourished I really do not believe she would take the cake from Judy in front of everyone who was abusing her.
I see a light
Hope.
I feel a breeze
Strength.
I hear a song
Relief.
Let them through
For
They are the welcome
Ones.

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